RhinoPower Ltd

A10warlord · Member

Baleno 16v

A10warlord · Member

Thank you for your corporation men my car is working properly. check engine light disappeared and now i have code 12. my RPM is 750 now. biggrin

the reason was that my TPS sensor wasn't adjusted properly :)

-- Edited by A10warlord on Tuesday 14th of February 2012 04:56:16 PM

TechSupport · Guru

Have you got a scan tool or a voltmeter? If you have a throttle opener valve then you need to ensure that that is retracted. Then set the TPS so that with the ignition on and the throttle at idle the voltage should be 3.27V to 4.58V with the throttle fully open the voltage should be 0.18 to 1.03 volts. You should check that the voltage changes smoothly between those two points.

A10warlord · Member

I chack my IAC valve and also clean it but resoult is same. now I have only code 21 and my RPM is too hight. now how i adjust my TSP. I loosing my TPS sensor screws and worm up engine at normal operationg temperature then i rotate my TPS sensor until i have 750 RPM. But at this time I have IAC valve couplers disconnected becouse when i conncect them at normal operationg temperature my RPM is 3000 :(

TechSupport · Guru

Have you checked that the ISC works? try putting 12V on the leads briefly and check that it clicks, also check for blockages and clean it out with carb cleaner. Codes 21 and 22 are TPS High and TPS Low, are you getting both of these codes without adjusting the TPS? How did you adjust the TPS?

A10warlord · Member

Hello

A have a same problem again

When i start engine at cold temperature my RMP is 1500 but when water temperature increasing my RMP is increasing too?
I mention one thing when i disconnect my IAC valve coupler RMP is becoming stable and when water temperature is normal my rmp is 750 but when i connect my IAC valve coupler my RMP is increasing at 3000.
and one problem too i can't adjust my TSP sensor normally sometime i have trouble code 22 sometime 21 if you can help me please don't be lazy :)

TechSupport · Guru

If you can read the codes using the Check Engine Light then you have an OBD1 Suzuki. You need a Suzuki dealer tool or an SDL interface to read live data and stored codes.

A10warlord · Member

i'm trying to test my car with Elm327 cable which is OBD II intarface but it didn't recognize protocol... can you help me ? may be this cable not for my car?

kostuch · Veteran Member

A10warlord wrote:
ok i adjust my TPS and now i'm getting Code 14 :((((

From manual:

NOTE:
When Code Nos. 14,21,23 and 32 are indicated together,
it is possible that “G/R” wire is open or C12 terminal
connection is poor.

A10warlord · Member

ok i adjust my TPS and now i'm getting Code 14 :((((

TechSupport · Guru

OK, I have found a 6M, it is a 33920-65G61 and is pretty much the same as the 65G60. The software is identical but the circuit board has more surface mount components. The silkscreen printing for the connector tallies with your information. The schematic I was quoting was sent to my by someone a few years back and must be for a different version of the Baleno ECU. I'll check the pins that you need to connect later, I have to go out now

kostuch · Veteran Member

This is strange.
Check out my pattern:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

TechSupport · Guru

Check the pinout with what is printed on the silkscreen, my FSM doesn't seem to agree with yours on the power pins, I have B6 as the data link, B9 was a typo.

You want to apply power to the power feed that comes from the main relay so you effectively bypass the relay.

kostuch · Veteran Member

Rhinoman wrote:
kostuch wrote:
Can you tell me which pins should be powered to be able to communicate with ecu?
I suspect:
IGS, B1, B2, BB to +12V
E1, E2, E01 to ground
To communicate with the ECU on the bench you need to connect A12 to 12V and A13 to ground.
Connect B9 to pin 9 on the diagnostic tool and apply 12V to pin 16 and 9V to pin 4 or 5

According to FSM:

A12 is E1 - ECM ground

A13 is B1 - power souce

...so it is opposite.

B9 is "ignition coil assembly #2". I think A3 (SDL) is proper pin.

TechSupport · Guru

kostuch wrote:
Can you tell me which pins should be powered to be able to communicate with ecu?
I suspect:
IGS, B1, B2, BB to +12V
E1, E2, E01 to ground
To communicate with the ECU on the bench you need to connect A12 to 12V and A13 to ground.
Connect B9 to pin 9 on the diagnostic tool and apply 12V to pin 16 and 9V to pin 4 or 5

kostuch · Veteran Member

Hi Rhinoman,
I recently bought another ecu for my 'baleno in samurai' to play with it on the bench.
It has no sticker on the case, so I know only that it starts with '6M'.
Anyway I connected it to engine and it works :)
This one also don't need immo to work.

Can you tell me which pins should be powered to be able to communicate with ecu?
I suspect:
IGS, B1, B2, BB to +12V
E1, E2, E01 to ground

TechSupport · Guru

No, my software currently only works on OBD1 Suzukis.

A10warlord · Member

http://www.amazon.com/HDE-ELM-327-Diagnostics-Cable/dp/B003MQBTXQ/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1326743521&sr=1-6

can i use your softhware usin this obdII cable?

TechSupport · Guru

I will scan the pages from the FSM tomorrow, if I have time. If haven't posted in a day or so then PM me to remind me.

A10warlord · Member

how can i adjust TPS correctly?

TechSupport · Guru

It may be that you don't have the TPS properly adjusted.

kostuch · Veteran Member

A10warlord wrote:
Hello i have some problem about my car :)
At normal water temperature my car idl speed was 3000 rpm and had check engine light on, i did on board diagnostic and get trouble code 22, i bought new TP sensor for my car and install it idle now idl speed is normal but check engine light is not disappeared and i did on board diagnostic again and now i'm getting trouble code 21? what does it mean? my new TP sensor is not working properly?

Check according to section 6E1-30 in FSM. You should download it and use as a reference.

A10warlord · Member

Hello i have some problem about my car :)

At normal water temperature my car idl speed was 3000 rpm and had check engine light on, i did on board diagnostic and get trouble code 22, i bought new TP sensor for my car and install it idle now idl speed is normal but check engine light is not disappeared and i did on board diagnostic again and now i'm getting trouble code 21? what does it mean? my new TP sensor is not working properly?

TechSupport · Guru

Thanks for the link.

kostuch · Veteran Member

Solved (by some Australian guys, not by me...).
Here is what to do, to make samurai tacho works with baleno ecu: http://members.iinet.net.au/~awcabren/ae86gzetacho.pdf

Alternatively you can make so-called 'tacho booster': http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/tech-conversions/46365-solved-jza80-2jzge-tacho-vs-2jzgte-tacho-engine-swap.html#post931989

kostuch · Veteran Member

ECU works again.
One wire to CKP sensor was connected to shield, because someone crushed cable during installation removal.
Signal disappeared to ground and code 42 occured.

Now back to tachometer...

kostuch · Veteran Member

PCB number is 112031-5491

I created simple TM signal simulator and tachometer from samurai works with this signal (via small signal converter).
I have to tweak it, because tachometer makes noise - I suspect, that tacho is driven now by both signal levels and that's why it vibrates.

Anyway, first I have to cure this problem with CKP signal somehow.

Thank you for your help

TechSupport · Guru

kostuch wrote:
I found partial schema of ECU at your site: http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/65G60/docs/dig_inputs3.jpg
Apparently at least input for CKP is identical in my ECU. I edited it a little. If you like, I can send you my version of this jpg.

There are a few errors in that circuit, I have seen this interface used in a few Denso circuits, it is a comparator circuit with hysteresis and it sould be biased to around 0.7V. The diode shown is upside down, it is there to prevent the negative side of the crankshaft pulse from being driven negative.
The tacho drive is generated by the Timing Processor Unit (TPU) and the code cannot be modified. The circuit for the tacho could be modified, there should be an RC network that sets the input/output ratio. It should be similar to this chip:
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/31387/TOSHIBA/TA8029.html
although the pin out is different.
What is the PCB number on the PCB? it looks the same as the 65G60.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Sunday 8th of January 2012 08:19:44 PM

kostuch · Veteran Member

The duty of TM signal is about 10% (4ms wide impulses).
I found application for this Toshiba chip, but it gives me no idea, how the signal should looks like.
Take a look: http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1517889900_1325945796.jpg

I found partial schema of ECU at your site: http://www.rhinopower.org/ECUs/65G60/docs/dig_inputs3.jpg
Apparently at least input for CKP is identical in my ECU. I edited it a little. If you like, I can send you my version of this jpg.

My board (sorry for quality): http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/cimg0148z.jpg/

Do you know other cases, when code 42 appears? Maybe I'm on the wrong track...

TechSupport · Guru

Can you please send me a picture of your circuit board? I have a 61G60 and a 65G60 but I can't find a 64G60.

TechSupport · Guru

So you have 25Hz at idle, is that a 50% duty cycle? The Toshiba chip must be some sort of frequency to voltage converter if that is the case. I will have a look at the 64G60 ECU when I am back in my workshop.

kostuch · Veteran Member

On the TM pin I have narrow positive impulses (10V amplitude, frequency about 25Hz at idle). It's not PWM, just variable frequency.
I inverted this signal with transistor to have narrow impulses to ground, like in classic ignition, but it not helped.
Old external tachometer from car with mechanical ignitor works and shows real rpm, but this one from samurai shows nothing.
I looked inside and it's build on Toshiba T2685A ic but I can't find datasheet for this chip.
Probably I just replace eletronic in tachometer.

Now I have worse problem.
Engine don't want to start and checkengine shows code 42 - CKP sensor problem.
I checked sensor with ohmmeter and is ok.
Also I checked signal with oscilloscope:
On the unplugged from ECU wires signal is according to service manual (sine wave, stretched where tooth is absent).
But when I plug it into ECU, the signal disappears and I can see only small random noise pikes.
Is it possible, that something is wrong with ECU? I already had problem with it - checkengine didn't light at all. It appeared that small smd resistor on the base of power transistor driving checkengine lamp had no contact. Quick heating solved problem, but I wonder if other elements are ok. Maybe some resistor/capacitor has no contact?
Can you provide some data about resistance on CKP inputs (C11 and C22 pins on the socket) to ground, please?
Or what else can be checked?

-- Edited by kostuch on Saturday 7th of January 2012 02:19:28 PM

TechSupport · Guru

Check the output from the TM pin, it should be a PWM signal, I suspect that the averaging circuit in the tacho is not compatible so you may need to modify it. I have one of those ECUs here but I won't be able to test it until next week.

kostuch · Veteran Member

Rhinoman,
I wrote about rpm signal (TM on ecu), not the speed.
Speed signal is ok - I have fuel injected samurai, so speedometer has built-in impulsator. I connected it to SPD ecu input and voltage is according to specification (0-5V) when turning wheel. I use this same impulsator to drive distance meter that I built using avr.
Problem is with tachometer.

My ECU: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/cimg0147sg.jpg
Check engine shows code 12 when grounded diagnostic line, so there is no error present.

TechSupport · Guru

You need a signal modifier for the VSS to convert the signal from the Sammy Speedo to suit the Baleno ECU. The Baleno had a couple of different types of VSS fitted, do you know which one you had?

The immobiliser chip on the ECU can be reprogrammed using the diagnostic link, usually you will get a communication error if the immobiliser is not present. What is the part number of your ECU?

kostuch · Veteran Member

Hi,
I have question specifically to Rhinoman.
Recently I successfully installed baleno 1,6 in my suzuki samurai, but I have problem with tachometer.
I connected TM signal from ecu to tachometer, but it doesn't work. Did you experienced similar problem in your setup?
Maybe tachometer from baleno has different requirements than this one from samurai?
I'll try to check TM signal with oscilloscope.

Funny thing is that I forgot to plug in immobilizer and engine started and works. Maybe someone already disabled immo in ecu, but there is no soldering evidence on ecu board, so it was done by software reconfiguration?

TechSupport · Guru

If you have pin 9 populated then it will be SDL, if you have pin 7 populated then it will be OBD2. As you are in Georgia it is almost certain to be SDL.

A10warlord · Member

My suzuki baleno is 1996 year. I live in Georgia. I count pins and i have 16 pin connector :)

TechSupport · Guru

The 1.8 should be a 16-pin connector, you will need to check which pins are populated to see if it is OBD1 or OBD2. What year is your vehicle and where are you located?

A10warlord · Member

http://car-ecu-repair.com/suzuki/engine-control-unit/hitachi/suzuki-3392062g51-hitachi-fi310a-253.html

this is my baleno ECU what adapter should i use for diagnostic the 12-pin ALDL connector or 16-pin J1962 OBD2 connector?

TechSupport · Guru

We don't currently have a method to reprogramme that ECU, I am planning on attempting a swap with a reflashed Jimny ECU, I'm not sure when I will be able to try that

kostuch · Veteran Member

OK, here are pics of ecu.

Quality is poor, because I have camera only in my phone. If you like, I can write down numbers from processor.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/cimg0147sg.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/cimg0148z.jpg/

kostuch · Veteran Member

Rhinoman wrote:
I haven't attempted to bypass the immobiliser, if it is a processor then it should be possible, it may also be possible to change some configuration resistors. what is the part number of your ECU and can you please provide pictures of the circuit board?
Regards
James

Thank you for quick reply.

I just bought it yesterday on the internet. The engine is on the way to my garage, so I'll provide numbers/pictures Friday (if delivery will be on time). I read in the manual, that it is some kind of dialogue between immobiliser and ecu, but didn't found any info about protocol. It would be great to disable it somehow.

Regards

Mariusz

TechSupport · Guru

I haven't attempted to bypass the immobiliser, if it is a processor then it should be possible, it may also be possible to change some configuration resistors. what is the part number of your ECU and can you please provide pictures of the circuit board?

Regards

James

kostuch · Veteran Member

Welcome
I'm new on this forum.

Regarding Baleno 1.6.
I'm going to put this engine into my suzuki samurai 1.3i (old engine is almost dead).
Because samurai is frequently abused in water, I wonder if I can get rid of some electronic.
Is there any way to disable/bypass/remove immobiliser?
If ECU modification is not an option, then maybe it's possible to make some blackbox to avoid potential problems with matching keyimmoecu.

Perhaps Rhinoman has some experience, because I see in his footer similar setup.

Regards

TechSupport · Guru

You will need to open the case and examine the circuit board, if you have a black sticker on the processor then you will be able to reflash it, if not then its probably not reflashable without changing the processor.

Can you send me pictures of the circuit board please and the part number of the ECU?

MANOLAKIS · Newbie

I hane baleno 1,3 16v 1996 2wd . I wan't to make it fuel map !! wich programme and bin ? and interface or pin out must be use (imobilaiser or not) THANK'S !!! :)

Shadey · Newbie

The first thing to do is suspension and the bigest problem you have to over come is you get a tremondous amount of wheelspin coming out of corners, another problem is chassis flex. We have overcome quiet few weakness in the car but to be fair there anit that many. I spent probably 3 solid nights setting the car up on scales,but it is so rewarding watching my lad pull along side of the saxo's and honda's then just leave them.
Happy to chat more and point you in right direction email my private email and probably tell you more.

TechSupport · Guru

It should be possible to up the rev limit. I'm going to give this a go on my 2000 GS, I'm planning on turning it into a trackday car. What mods have you done to yours?

Shadey · Newbie

Hi thanks for geting back to me its a 99 gs, single coil pack, will get the ecu number off for you. So i take it that it is possible to up rev limiter and increase fuel. I understand that you are buzy but would you be in the position in the near future to have a play?