RhinoPower Ltd

TechSupport · Guru

Maruti Suzuki Swift Diesel - which protocol?

archat68 · Member

Rhinman

Regarding the KWP2000 Fast init protocol used in older Maruti Swift diesel is this of any help?

http://www.freediag.org/opendiag/0888.html

TechSupport · Guru

That describes the OBD2 version of KWP2000, Suzuki use their own proprietary implementation of KWP2000. The early diesel may use that protocol or a FIAT version of it, I may be able to determine which one it is as I have since done quite a lot of work on this, I will run some tests. Yesterday I was able to establish two way communications with an ECU using the Suzuki protocol with my prototype KWP interface, although I still have a lot of work to do before I have some production ready software.

KWP2000 uses the ISO9141-1 physical interface (hardware) which is why it says ISO9141 in the service manual although it is KWP2000.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Wednesday 3rd of April 2013 01:03:04 PM

TechSupport · Guru

Thats good to know, thanks.

archat68 · Member

This thing worked.

http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/201294100.html

TechSupport · Guru

archat68 wrote:
I was talking about this one:
The link is:
http://dx.com/p/opel-tech2-usb-cable-car-vehicle-diagnostic-tool-blue-114087?item=5

Thats not a real Tech2 and it only has prograqmming for GM vehicles. A real Tech2 can be used on GM or Suzuki but you have to use different software.You can't communicate with a Suzuki using GM software except for a few models that were sold badged as GM vehicles in the US.

archat68 · Member

I was talking about this one:

The link is:

http://dx.com/p/opel-tech2-usb-cable-car-vehicle-diagnostic-tool-blue-114087?item=5

Tech2

TechSupport · Guru

Neither of those will work. The Tech2 is a handheld scantool, not a USB interface and costs several thousand dollars. I'm not sure if you would need the Tech2 tool or the later SDT diagnostic tool.

archat68 · Member

Back after long time :)

Will this thing work?
http://dx.com/p/kwp2000-plus-ecu-flashing-car-diagnostic-tool-114516

I read in many forums that Suzuki uses a tool called Tech2.

Is this same thing?

http://dx.com/p/opel-tech2-com-car-diagnostic-tool-scanner-116311?item=1

-- Edited by archat68 on Wednesday 22nd of August 2012 05:13:48 PM

TechSupport · Guru

The ELM device has a command that allows the header information to be changed, maybe that will work. I wish that I had an ECU here that I could run some tests on. I have access to a GM scantool that should be capable of KW81 communication but I also need the specification.

Your ELM device may just have a bad solder joint, its not uncommon with Chinese electronics. If you can get it working again then it would be a good idea to disable any airbag or ABS controllers to ensure that it is the Engine ECU that is responding.

archat68 · Member

@MCL

I'm a member of GH and I've already read the post by Ripper :) .

The ELM 327 will not work OOB. The protocol is KWP2000 fast init. You need to turn off the keyword checking and you will be able to get the bus initialised. But there is some specific command to get it working (by changing the headers etc) which I don't know. I was trying and reading the ISO protocols etc and also expecting some help from Rhinoman but my ELM327 broke inbetween (lived just 2 days :( )

mclaren1885 · Member

Archat, a friend of mine tried to get the ELM-327 to work on his Swift.

He had done extensive mods to his DDIS that included a turbo upgrade, re-map, intake, exhaust, Bilstein suspension amongst other things.

Here is what he had to say about the ELM that he managed to fix on his car. You may have to read through some of his posts prior to this as well.

http://gearheads.in/showthread.php?174-Torturing-the-1.3-DDiS&p=16702&viewfull=1#post16702

-- Edited by mclaren1885 on Sunday 10th of July 2011 06:53:56 AM

-- Edited by mclaren1885 on Sunday 10th of July 2011 07:15:00 AM

archat68 · Member

It is a Magneti Marelli ECU. You can confirm from the ECU connector itself.

See this link and compare with the ECU connector in your car. You can also see the service manual image I posted below.

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/english/powertrain_diesel_ecus.php

The sad news is - the cheap ELM 327 adapter that I bough is dead just after 2 days of use. It doesn't connect to any BT device :( .

mclaren1885 · Member

There are some major doubts if Maruti is using the Magnetti Marelli MM-6JF ECUs in the Swift or if they approached Bosch for the ECUs. Are you sure the ECU is a MM and not Bosch?

I too have a Diesel Swift. But haven't gotten around to fooling with it yet.

archat68 · Member

Thanks for replying. I'll do some reading too.

TechSupport · Guru

This is the response from ELM:

James:

The ISO14230 standard expects keywords of 8F E9, but there are a family of these that all begin with 8F, so you might be able to get the ELM327 to work as long as the KW1 is 8F. Since you have an 81, I believe you have a different protocol (KW81) that is unfortunately not supported by the ELM327.

Jim

So the problem is that the ELM327 doesn't support the particular protocol that the Suzuki uses. From what I can determine KW81 was commonly used on Vauxhall/Opel vehicles as well as FIAT vehicles, including Alfa Romeo and vehicles made by other subsidaries.

Is KW81 part of the ISO14230 standard? I will continue researching this.

TechSupport · Guru

OK so it has an OBD2 port and the protocol is KWP2000 fast init. What we need to know is what the 81h, 01h response means. I will try and find my KWP2000 specification, meanwhile I have also asked ELM to comment.

archat68 · Member

Rhinoman wrote:
What responses do you get to the following sequence?
AT Z
AT SP 0
01 00

ELM327 v1.4

>ATZ
ATZ

ELM327 v1.4

>ATSP 00
ATSP 00
OK

>0100
0100
SEARCHING...
UNABLE TO CONNECT

I then tried:

>at sp5
at sp5
OK

>at kw0
at kw0
OK

>0100
0100
BUS INIT: OK
NO DATA

>at rv
at rv
11.5V

>at kw
at kw
1:81 2:1

TechSupport · Guru

What responses do you get to the following sequence?

AT Z

AT SP 0

01 00

archat68 · Member

Yes connected it to the vehicle. Tried using softwares like Scantool.net, Scanmaster ELM, both shows "interface not found". Used Torque for Android, it tries to connect using various protocols but ultimately fails to connect.
Tried Putty to connect to the COM port, it connected, issued ATZ command to test, various LEDs on the scanner shows some activity suggesting that the reset has been done.

Don't know how to proceed further!! Please help.

Will try the FiatECUScan software today.

TechSupport · Guru

Have you tried it on the vehicle yet?

archat68 · Member

Got hold of a ELM327 (cheap ebay type). Please guide me to connect.

archat68 · Member

Pin 9 is not populated in my OBD connector.

The voltage reading is without anything connected.

TechSupport · Guru

For OBD2 that should be close to battery voltage, is that 4V with the interface connected or without? Its rather odd, someone else has reported having 9V on that pin which is also too low.

What voltage have you got on pin 9?

archat68 · Member

Sorry for late reply.

I have a Scangauge at hand at present.

I'm trying to connect it by forcing ISO or KWP mode but it fails.

The output of pin 7 of OBD connector (K line) is 4V wit reference to GND.

TechSupport · Guru

archat68 wrote:
This is actually a rebadged Fiat multijet diesel engine. So, the ECU is Magneti Marelli.
Rhinoman wrote:
can you use a terminal programme to nsee what response you are getting from the ECU?
Can you please guide me how to do that?

Its a FIAT engine, OK thats a help. have you got an ELM compatible interface that you can try?

archat68 · Member

This is actually a rebadged Fiat multijet diesel engine. So, the ECU is Magneti Marelli.

Rhinoman wrote:
can you use a terminal programme to nsee what response you are getting from the ECU?

Can you please guide me how to do that?

TechSupport · Guru

You should be able to force the scan tool to use ISO9141, can you use a terminal programme to nsee what response you are getting from the ECU?

Thats the first Magnetti Marelli ECU that I've seen on a Suzuki variant, as far as I know we only got Bosch ECUs over here.

archat68 · Member

This seems to be the ECU:

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/english/powertrain_diesel_ecus.php

archat68 · Member

I have a Maruti Suzuki Swift diesel 2007 which has a OBDII connector. But everybody failed to get the Scangauge working with it. The service manual says that the pin no. 7 (K line - ISO 9141) is used to communiacte with Suzuki scantool.

Also, the ECU uses 2 sockets to connect with the vehicle.

Here are are photos from the service manual. 2011-06-03 19.02.39.jpg 2011-06-03 19.03.17.jpg

If it uses standard ISO 9141 - I failed to understand why most of the diagnostic tools fails to connect with it.

But Maruti also uses CAN protocol for communicating with the ECM and BCM (body electrical control module). The pin no. 14 (CAN low) and pin 6 (CAN high) present in the OBDII connector is present to diagnose any problem with the BCM.

Can it be the case that when we connect the scanners and tools like ScangaugeII, the presence of output for both ISO 9141 and CAN confuses the scanner tool which then fails to connect.

Here is the OBDII connector: