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Post Info TOPIC: TheZuke!


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RE: TheZuke!
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TheZuke wrote:

I tried another 9-pin serial cable from the laptop to the RS-232 tester and it lights up, so I guess the first cable was bad.  I didn't find any settings in CMOS relating to the serial port. The Nokia cable is "no-show" so it too may be bad.

TheZuke!
dona nobis pacem


 I found out tonight that this 9-pin cable is a

UPS Smart APC Serial cable

http://www.pccables.com/88201.html

shows its unique pinout.hmm

 



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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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Replied here:

http://rhinopower.activeboard.com/forum.spark#lastPostAnchor#comment-42217034

There are a few tips here:

http://rhinopower.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=133095&topicID=30695064&p=3



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1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Okay, I do get a reading on the RV (v0.8) speedometer.

It read 8 KPH when TheZuke!'s speedometer read 15 MPH

(approx 1/2 scale, or if it _truly_ thinks it is KPH...1/3 actual)

I also got TPS readings of ~4-17 in a short drive.

I think the Battery readings are correct.

 

ECU 0000 shows action on just about every register

(which sensors are okay to unplug?

other than throwing ECU codes, are there any dangers or dangerous ones?)

 

TheZuke!

dona nobis pacem



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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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I'm working on the 1202 that I have here and i'm updating RV to provide better support for this ECU. Meanwhile I've started a new thread to post up the details of this ECU, please post all replies there. Also can you get a photo of the inside so I can compare it to a Euro ECU?

http://rhinopower.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=133095&topicID=42202815&p=3



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1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Now we build the configuration file. I have some of the information already, the 1202 is a common ECU used worldwide.

You should take a look on here and on Suzuki-forums for Grimreefer's posts. He and I have already done some work on the 1202, I've also sent out another interface to Sweden which I think will also be a 1202.

Next stage is to change the ECU ID to 0000, that will bring up the dataviewer in raw data mode.

Addresses 0->3 will be the fault code registers. Unplug a few sensors and record the values displayed.

Address 4 should be the target idle, does it start off at a fixed value and them slowly decrease to a fixed value as the engine warms up?

Addresses 4 and 5 are RPM, the scaling can be changed in the configuration file datastream.csv located in the bin folder. In the constants area, in the 1202 column, change the value for RPM from 4 to 1 and see how that looks.

Address 6 should be the VSS, output is usually in km/h, can you confirm this?

Next few addresses are the analogue inputs, I did have those values somewhere but I will hook an ECU up on the bench and recheck.

We'll get those addresses sorted and then move onto the next bunch.

Cheers

James



__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Using RhinoView
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Thanks Rhinoman

for building the interface.

After a number of attempts, I finally got the laptop to communicate with the ECU.

It returned an ECU ID of 1202,

but with the engine idling (~1K RPM) the RV tach showed about 5 times that amount

(fluctuating with the engines fluctuations) and Battery Voltage around 13.5.

none of the other registers showed data.

I tried various other ECU ID's, some showed the Tach maxxed out.

What next?

TheZuke!

dona nobis pacem



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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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The most common problem with USB seems to be that the device is incorrectly identified as an HID device. This happens if you don't install the drivers first or on first plug-in, the driver then needs to be updated through the Device Manager.

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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The cable may also have been "incorrectly wired" - one of the frustrating quirks of RS232 serial interfacing is determing what type of device you are connecting to (DTE or DCE) and pinning the connectors appropriately.

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I tried another 9-pin serial cable from the laptop to the RS-232 tester and it lights up, so I guess the first cable was bad.  I didn't find any settings in CMOS relating to the serial port. The Nokia cable is "no-show" so it too may be bad.

TheZuke!
dona nobis pacem

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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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You might find that the cable has been incorrectly identified, you should look through the list of devices with it plugged and unplugged, if it has the wrong driver then you should use the 'Update Driver' button to load the Prolific (not Nokia) driver.

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Many of today's laptops allow the com ports to be disabled in the CMOS setup - you might like to check to see if that one was.

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I hooked up an RS-232 tester to the laptop's 9-pin serial port, and nothing lit up.
So I plugged in a Prolific USB-9-pin Serial adapter to a USB port and it showed up in Device Manager (the Nokia hadn't).  I plugged the RS-232 tester into the Prolific and it lit 3 green LEDs.  I am not sure why the regular serial port didn't show up.
now to try it in TheZuke!

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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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Loading the Nokia driver didn't help,  maybe the cable is dead.

I did find a bad ground on the interface board, and resoldered it,
the ECU is still "no show" in Rhinoview (using the 9-pin serial on COM1).

Maybe the bad ground blew the MAX chip, I did buy a spare one.

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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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Okay, loading the Prolific driver is next in the order of business.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't loaded on the laptop, but I do have the CD around here somewhere.

I could then use either the Nokia USB or COM1 9 pin serial to talk to the interface.
But checking voltages on the interface (i.e. in and out of the 7805 and elsewhere)
should be my next step.  I haven't had a chance to do this since monday...

Thanks for the replies!
TheZuke!
dona nobis pacem

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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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I've cracked open the casing and it looks like the cable does have a transceiver so it may interface to the MAX232 chip although it won't meet the RS232 specification. Can you access the PCB on yours? it may be easier to bypass both transceivers.

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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OK, first tests indicate that my cable doesn't source power for the serial lines from the USB port so it would need to source its supply from the interface. You need to use a voltmeter and check that you have 3V on pins 4 and 6.

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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OK, yesterday I ordered one of these cables myself to experiment with, it just dropped onto my desk. The cable came with a disc that contains the Nokia software suite including the Prolific driver. I put the disc in but didn't install the software. Then I plugged the cable in and the New Hardware Wizard popped up. Point the wizard to the CD and it will install the driver, it then shows up as "Prolific USB to Serial Comm Port"

Stay tuned....

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Rhinoman wrote:
Reading through this web page and the original article that it references it seems that they are a bit confused. As far as I can tell the cable is a USB to TTL converter, it is not, despite all the references, a USB to RS232 converter. In short that would mean that your signal levels may be inverted. Do you read 5V on the diagnostic link when the cable is connected? if not then try removing the MAX232 chip from the circuit that might do the trick.

I haven't checked voltage levels on the circuit.

By removing the MAX232, how do I "combine" the separate RX/TX lines from the Prolific to the combined data line from the ECU?  A resistor divider/mixer or is that already done in the transistor circuit?

Thanks again!
TheZuke!
dona nobis pacem

 



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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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Rhinoman wrote:

The Nokia cable uses a Prolific chip which can be prone to driver problems. If you look in the hardware manager can you see the device? which COM port does it claim to be on?

No, I "really" don't see the device or to which USB port it is "connected" in devmgmt.msc

I always use the FTDI chip because I have never had a problem with it or with the drivers but I will get hold of one of those cables to experiment with as threy are cheap.
I haven't seen a 58B90 so i will need the ID number, you could try downloading RS232 Hex Comm Tool from VID

I think they wanted $40 for the tool, and I'm on a shoe string budget (that's why I built the circuit instead of buying yours outright.biggrin)  I remember back in DOS days a terminal (emulator?) program in the Accessories folder or somesuch, but I don't see it in Home XP. would something like that suffice?

and sending the data (10, 03, ED) manually, thats what I have used for debugging.
That schematic is very poorly designed. You definately don't want to try and source power from the laptop/PC because the noise and spikes on the vehicle wiring could damage the port. Also the 7805 isn't suitable for automotive use, at the very least you should use a reverse blocking diode in the power line

you mean "after" the 7805? I do have forward biased diode between the 12v input and the 7805 and a 24V (or similar) zener diode to protect both the interface and the laptop. in this case, "across" 12v in and ground? 

The circuit doesn't have the correct switching levels either, nor does it have any hysteresis. That said it can work with some ECUs but it will drop data more often than a properly designed circuit.

Edit:
There is a long standing issue with RV that means that you have to close down the programme to change serial port settings. Because most people only use it on one ECU and the software retains its settings there hasn't been much impetus to fix this but it will eventually be corrected.

Okay, that's good to know too!

Thanks again!

TheZuke

dona nobis pacem

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 11:11:00 AM




 



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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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TheZuke wrote:

I first tried the circuit adapter with a USB converter

http://jethomson.wordpress.com/2010/02/21/diy-usb-to-serial-cable-for-3usd/


Reading through this web page and the original article that it references it seems that they are a bit confused. As far as I can tell the cable is a USB to TTL converter, it is not, despite all the references, a USB to RS232 converter. In short that would mean that your signal levels may be inverted. Do you read 5V on the diagnostic link when the cable is connected? if not then try removing the MAX232 chip from the circuit that might do the trick.

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



Guru

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The Nokia cable uses a Prolific chip which can be prone to driver problems. If you look in the hardware manager can you see the device? which COM port does it claim to be on? I always use the FTDI chip because I have never had a problem with it or with the drivers but I will get hold of one of those cables to experiment with as threy are cheap.
I haven't seen a 58B90 so i will need the ID number, you could try downloading RS232 Hex Comm Tool from VID and sending the data (10, 03, ED) manually, thats what I have used for debugging.
That schematic is very poorly designed. You definately don't want to try and source power from the laptop/PC because the noise and spikes on the vehicle wiring could damage the port. Also the 7805 isn't suitable for automotive use, at the very least you should use a reverse blocking diode in the power line and a 24V (or similar) zener diode to protect both the interface and the laptop. The circuit doesn't have the correct switching levels either, nor does it have any hysteresis. That said it can work with some ECUs but it will drop data more often than a properly designed circuit.

Edit:
There is a long standing issue with RV that means that you have to close down the programme to change serial port settings. Because most people only use it on one ECU and the software retains its settings there hasn't been much impetus to fix this but it will eventually be corrected.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 11:11:00 AM

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Just a follow up,
I found the paper I wrote the ECU data on
p/n 33920-58B90
E2T42971
3611 A1
US-MT
CPU sticker
MH75328CP8
2M1 EB46

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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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Is this the proper place to discuss this? (you're the bosssmile)

I forgot to mention it is RV 0.7

I first tried the circuit adapter with a USB converter

http://jethomson.wordpress.com/2010/02/21/diy-usb-to-serial-cable-for-3usd/

and got "connected" on various COM ports (COM2-COM7?) 
I was not able to get an ECU ID but I did attempt a few times to change the setting in the pull down, and it RV replied that one wasn't found and would use defaults.

When I replaced the caps a couple weeks ago, I wrote down everything on the outside of the ECU box and a few stickers inside too!  Do you think I can find that slip of paper NOW?!!!no

I removed the USB converter and connected directly to COM1 on the laptop with a 9-pin serial cable, I also tried swapping TX and RX for good measure.  It showed "Connected" there too, but no daters (plural for data smile) displayed/logged/viewed.

Yes, it would show an ECU ID in the bottom RH corner, which ever ECU ID I'd put into or pull down from the menu...

I made the adapter so I could readily swap RX/TX lines on the PC side.  It may not work, but I was eager to hook it up after soldering.  It uses the 7805 regulator instead of "phantom" power from DTE or RTS.

There is the possibility the laptop doesn't have the right serial port chip, I'm still wondering how I'll find that out.

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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built



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Hi, good to see you over here, I did recognize the username.
You should only see 'Connected' if you have received a valid ECU ID message, is there an ID number shown in the bottom right hand corner?
Cheers
James

__________________

1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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Hello,
I own a 1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX with 1.6L 16valve 4-door, 4WD with 5-speed M/T.
I currently work part-time as an Electronic Technician doing first level failure analysis on hard disk drives.  I live in SouthEast Minnesota, USA and the weather is finally warm enough to allow me to work on the car again.

I've owned TheZuke! since it was new, and now it has over 160K miles.
It has a rough idle sometimes and takes up to 15 seconds of cranking when the engine is warm before it will stay running.
I sometimes post on the suzuki-forums.com Sidekick forum.

I built the MAX232 AKMCables ALDL to PC interface cable (as revised for 1990-1995 Suzuki's) and hooked it up today to a laptop (8 year old HP with WinXP) running Rhinoview.  While RV said it had "connected" I did not see any data displayed.
So I decided to join this forum and see what I can learn and contribute.

Well off to read up!



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1994 Suzuki Sidekick JX, 4x4, 4-door, 16 valve 1.6 L, MT (5-speed) USA Fed, Japan built

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