RhinoPower Ltd

TechSupport · Guru

RE: USB to SDL interface

dominikus · Newbie

Hi ! I'm from Poland and my english isn't very well. I have one question: Could You make a SDL cable interface for special order ? I have Suzuki Baleno 1997(1.3 GS)

Greetings

Dominik

TechSupport · Guru

I will publish a parts list. I have PCBs available, PM me if you want one.
The software is written in C++ using Borland Builder 6.

mnunes · Newbie

hi there,

i'am interested on build the interface, ived located the schematics and would like to have an material list, could you please publish one on the site?

by the way, what's the language youre using for developing the software aplication? i'am a software developer and can really help on developing the interface, if you feel like i should

you have all the help i can give ... just ask. ty

fordem · Senior Member

Thanks for the correction.

TechSupport · Guru

Thanks, I wasn't sure if that was the same cable.

2001 is the year that OBD2 was mandated in the EU not when it was first introduced. Up to 2001 it was purely the manufacturers decision, Suzukis were a mix of both OBD1 and OBD2. GVs and Jimnys are a mix of OBD1 and OBD2, Vitaras were OBD1 until they were discontinued in 2001. 1.6 Balenos were OBD1 while 1.8 Balenos were OBD2.

fordem · Senior Member

That would depend on the year of production and more important, the market the GV was built for.

OBD2 is essentially a US only standard, mandated on all vehicles built after '96, the US got the GV in '99, so all US GVs are OBD2.

Europe has EOBD (which is a superset of OBD2) as of '01 (for petrol engined vehicles), and they got the GV in '98, so early GVs will be OBD1 and later GVs will be EOBD.

The ROW - Rest of the World - in most cases does not have mandatory emission controls, and has a "hodgepodge" of standards depending on the manufacturer - my GV is a '98, E06 (Africa) vehicle and is definitely OBD1

Metalfab_101 · Member

fordem wrote:

If you guys are discussing the ALDLOBD2U cable - it works on my GV.

If you look lower down in this thread about four post from the beginning, you'll find one where I suggest that Lloyd from TunerTools runs that site - which turned out to be a mistake.

Not withstanding - that IS the cable I'm using, the CD that came with it IS from OBD Diagnostics Inc in Redondo beach, and I did buy it from Lloyd.

That's interesting, I would have thought that a GV was OBD2.

fordem · Senior Member

If you guys are discussing the ALDLOBD2U cable - it works on my GV.

If you look lower down in this thread about four post from the beginning, you'll find one where I suggest that Lloyd from TunerTools runs that site - which turned out to be a mistake.

Not withstanding - that IS the cable I'm using, the CD that came with it IS from OBD Diagnostics Inc in Redondo beach, and I did buy it from Lloyd.

TechSupport · Guru

They haven't responded to me either.

Metalfab_101 · Member

Rhinoman wrote:
I've sent them an email as well

Heard anything? I got nothin

TechSupport · Guru

I've sent them an email as well

Metalfab_101 · Member

Rhinoman wrote:

No it needs to be an ALDL interface, OBD2 is quite different and on different pins. Something like this will probably work:

http://www.aldlcable.com/sc/details.asp?item=aldlobd2u

You will need to check the switching thresholds with the manufacturer. Ideally you should have something like 2V with 0.5V of hysteresis but most cables seem to work. Avoid anything with a low going switching threshold of lower than 1.2V.
If you make your own interface then you will find that the OBD2 (J1962) connectors are much cheaper than the ALDL connectors, thats the only reason that I suggest using the J1962 connector.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Sunday 3rd of January 2010 11:22:03 PM

I emailed these guys and asked what voltage the switching thresholds are, but they came back with "It is a 0-5V signal."

I'll try to email them again, how should I word my question to them?

Also, could someone explain the switching threshold thing for me? Thanks! biggrin

I suspect that particular cable is going to work OK, but it would be nice to get some confirmation before I spend the $ and wait 2 weeks for it to arrive.

TechSupport · Guru

Metalfab_101 wrote:

Have been doing a bit of looking around and found another cable, do you think that this would work?

It refers to FTDI drivers so i'm guessing it must have that chip in it.

Those guys have the OBD2 socket that I need too. Handy!

No, thats an OBD2 interface too. Given that you're in Australia and you're buying the interface the 12-pin style would probably be OK. You can get the connector for the vehicle from a breaker, they were used on a lot of GM/Holden vehicles. Something like this should work:
http://tunertools.com/proddetail.asp?prod=AKMOBD1USB

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Friday 8th of January 2010 03:22:50 PM

Metalfab_101 · Member

Have been doing a bit of looking around and found another cable, do you think that this would work?

It refers to FTDI drivers so i'm guessing it must have that chip in it.

Those guys have the OBD2 socket that I need too. Handy!

TechSupport · Guru

No it needs to be an ALDL interface, OBD2 is quite different and on different pins. Something like this will probably work:

http://www.aldlcable.com/sc/details.asp?item=aldlobd2u

You will need to check the switching thresholds with the manufacturer. Ideally you should have something like 2V with 0.5V of hysteresis but most cables seem to work. Avoid anything with a low going switching threshold of lower than 1.2V.
If you make your own interface then you will find that the OBD2 (J1962) connectors are much cheaper than the ALDL connectors, thats the only reason that I suggest using the J1962 connector.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Sunday 3rd of January 2010 11:22:03 PM

Metalfab_101 · Member

Would something like this work?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OBD-2-OBDII-EOBD-USB-Interface-1-3-Scanner-tool-CAN_W0QQitemZ270508445859QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment?hash=item3efb8f50a3

Metalfab_101 · Member

Oh I see! I was under the impression that something custom was required.

Now I realise why you recommended I fit a OBD2 socket, as the over the counter adpaters are much more common for that interface!

I'll have a search around for something over the counter, if anyone has a recommendation for anything in particular i'd be interested in hearing about it.

thanks!

Damo.

TechSupport · Guru

Swifted wrote:

Rhinoman wrote:

I found a wiring diagram for a non-GTI model that shows the DLC on pin B13 which has another function on the GTI ECU. I need to look at both wiring diagrams together to see what other differences there are.

splendid! i'll wait to hear from you with your findings.

I have been through the set up of the Timing Processor and there is no serial port implemented using that either. I do now have addresses for most of the main functions so I'm not far off being able to implement a diagnostic port.

TechSupport · Guru

Most people have bought an over the counter USB interface. If you want to build one then you can use through hole components instead. FTDI make a module with the USB converter and socket fitted, I have used a few for prototypes.
If there is any demand then I'll have some PCBs made, I have modified the layout a little to make it a little easier to assemble.

Metalfab_101 · Member

What is the best way for me to make the SDL interface?

I have had experience in putting together quite a few through hole PCBs and I am quite comfortable doing those. Surface mount stuff as small as we are talking for the SDL adapter has me a little nervous though.

Are circuit boards available or is it a DIY from scratch job?

thanks!

Damo.

Swifted · Member

Rhinoman wrote:

I found a wiring diagram for a non-GTI model that shows the DLC on pin B13 which has another function on the GTI ECU. I need to look at both wiring diagrams together to see what other differences there are.

splendid! i'll wait to hear from you with your findings.

TechSupport · Guru

I found a wiring diagram for a non-GTI model that shows the DLC on pin B13 which has another function on the GTI ECU. I need to look at both wiring diagrams together to see what other differences there are.

Swifted · Member

Take care and enjoy the trip, I know I will on mine! biggrin

fordem · Senior Member

Have a good trip - the wife & I will be in Florida - hopefully a quick visit with her doctor (which is the purpose of the trip) and then a few days R&R and some shopping.

Swifted · Member

That's an interesting breakdown there with the specs. Thanks for posting!

and I'm gonna be heading to NY to visit the Fiancee (she's studying at a vocal college in Manhattan)

fordem · Senior Member

AA34S-250828 translates to an SF413-2 - color 26U (superior white), sub color D01
Engine number: G13B-271362
Transmission number: R524708
Model code: HEJ574N61

The model code further breaks down to

H - hatchback
E - model series
J - 5 seater, 3 door
57 - 4 cycle, 4 cylinder DOHC 1298 cc engine and floor shift, 5 speed 2WD transmissin
4 - SDX Grade
     GS Grade
     GLX Grade
     GTI Grade
N - Type2
61 - E61 specification

E61 is Latin America - so you have a Latin America spec GTi.

Now - here's an interesting coincidence...

I, too, will be heading out to the US but in a little less than 10 days (9 to be exact). Which part of the US are you going - I've seen quite a few Trinidadians go up to Miami around Thanksgiving - I believe it's related to the "Black Friday" sales.

Swifted · Member

fordem wrote:

James - you have an american market ECU? Was this removed from a UK market vehicle?

One possible reason why Swifted might have an ECU similar to a UK market one is that Trinidad (and also Guyana) are or were at some point British colonies - we all drive right hand drive cars on the left side of the road - and way back, when I was a youngster, the majority of our vehicles were shipped out from Britain.

Swifted - if you post the chassis number from your car I can look it up and should be able to tell you which market Suzuki built the car for.

It is probably going to be an E01 "general market" vehicle, but strange things do happen and I was quite surprised to find that the GV that I have (and which was originally imported by the local Suzuki dealer) is an E06 "Africa market" vehicle.

lol, maybe they mixed up your GV on the two boats; the one heading to Ghana, rather than the one heading to Guyana!

and here's my numbers:

Type AA34S
Chassis # AA34S - 250828
Engine # 271362

I'm gonna be heading up to the US in a little over 10 days, and that's when I was going to order the ALDLCable.

fordem · Senior Member

James - you have an american market ECU? Was this removed from a UK market vehicle?

One possible reason why Swifted might have an ECU similar to a UK market one is that Trinidad (and also Guyana) are or were at some point British colonies - we all drive right hand drive cars on the left side of the road - and way back, when I was a youngster, the majority of our vehicles were shipped out from Britain.

Swifted - if you post the chassis number from your car I can look it up and should be able to tell you which market Suzuki built the car for.

It is probably going to be an E01 "general market" vehicle, but strange things do happen and I was quite surprised to find that the GV that I have (and which was originally imported by the local Suzuki dealer) is an E06 "Africa market" vehicle.

TechSupport · Guru

SwiftEd, our ECUs are variants of the same model, the PCBs appear to be the same but with differing silkscreen markings and variations on populated components. Yours is:
I3
EC - European Market
SBKE103 EPROM (E=European?)
Mine is:
I2
FED - American market
SKBA103 (A=American)

Curiously I'm just off the coast of mainland Europe and you're just off the coast of the American continent. Juha who is in Finland also has a FED spec. ECU, albeit an earlier model.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Wednesday 4th of November 2009 09:08:47 PM

TechSupport · Guru

None of the early manuals that I have mention the Tech1 scanner or the SDL interface. The only reference that there is is a box marked SDL shown on the wiring diagram - but with no associated pin reference. This is in marked contrast to the Baleno (SDL) and Jimny (OBD2) manuals where the diagnostics rely on having a scanner.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Wednesday 4th of November 2009 08:12:01 PM

fordem · Senior Member

Does that manual mention the use of a 'Tech1' anywhere in the EFI troubleshooting or perhaps the ignition timing adjustements?

I believe there is a possibility that the ECU does not support the SDL line - absence of any reference to the Tech1 might confirm that.

Swifted · Member

Yes, no. 23 is the CO Adjuster. here is the sheet describing the diagram;

I figure that if my car doesn't have an O2 Sensor, then that is why there would be the CO Adjuster. I'd like to know where the ALDL interface originated at the ECU. confuse

fordem · Senior Member

Swifted wrote:

Swifted

What does the manual call out for #23 in this drawing - it's either going to be the TPS (which I doubt since I think that is #24) or it's the CO resistor - which technically is the same as the AFR - Air Fuel Ratio - adjuster (if fitted)

Edit - looking at the TeamSwift post that was linked to, they show the same diagram and also identify #23 as the AFR adjuster, so it looks like B15 is the AFR adjuster input.

-- Edited by fordem on Wednesday 4th of November 2009 01:16:25 AM

Swifted · Member

On my ECU (F1-023A), the O2 Sensor isn't used, and the A8 pin on the ECU harness isn't wired. So if you're right about it being the AFR adjuster, then where is the data communication port? lol

TechSupport · Guru

Going back to this thread on Teamswift:

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20687&start=25

A23 is shown as the AFR adjuster input, I think that makes sense because I think that the F5 ECU has no O2 sensor input. I can trace this out and check the F5 code.
B6, or more specifically R68 which is the missing resistor, is shown as not populated on NA (North American?) vehicles so it could be related to the turbo or may be something else, we now know that its an analogue input (Knock Sensor?)
There are a couple of grounds shown on the schematic that could be configuration links.
I am pretty sure that the thread above has a fair amount of guesswork in it, obviously they don't have access to all the ECUs for comparison.

-- Edited by Rhinoman on Tuesday 3rd of November 2009 09:59:12 PM

Swifted · Member

On the Teamswift.net Forum you mentioned to verify that there was a 5V measurement at the 'M' terminal of the ALDL plug, that's why I was curious to hear your thoughts on the A23 & B17 5V measurements. As you'll notice, on my diagrams, there's no reference as to what A23 is used for. Let's see where we can go with this! wink

TechSupport · Guru

On the I2 ECU there is no connection to B6, on the F5 ECU it looks like it goes to a resistor between R87 and Z75 (I hope the numbers are the same!).

TechSupport · Guru

I have been through all the wiring diagrams that I can find, on some models A23 is listed as EGRT (EGR Temperature). I have B17 listed as CFG2, I can't remember what this means, I think that it is probably a GND wire to differentiate between California models and Fed models. The ones I have no listing for are A24, not connected on the I2) and B6 (unknown function).
I'll have to trace them through on my I2 ECU and see what happens in the code.
Cheers
James

Swifted · Member

I spent a few hours this morning with my dad tearing apart the harness under the dash chasing the 'M' (Violet with white Tracer) Wire.

What we found was quite interesting; The Wire quickly disappears into the bundled harness which then runs up near the Instrument Cluster panel, which then routes back down to the 'engine harness' (senders, etc.) to the under dash harness (ecu, etc.) BUT! on the harness plug side going to the ECU the wire is not terminated. check the Pictures I attached for better explaination.

After tracing the path of the wire, we decided to try measuring the Voltages present on the unused Ports at the ECU. The only Pins that we found to have Voltage was on plug A23(4.895V), and B17 (4.980V). If you look at the hand drawn diagram, you will see what my measurements gleened.

I suspect that the 'M' wire must have originally been connected to the A23 pin at the ECU because of how close the relationship with 'diagnostics' is to the adjacent pins. what do you guys think?

fordem · Senior Member

Umm - based on what I've read on different Suzuki related forums, there seems to be a possibility that either some ECUs do not have SDL I/O port or it's not wired to the ALDL connector.

You could try disconnecting the ECU from the harness (to avoid damage) and then use your Fluke in continuity mode to check which pin in the ECU connector harness (if any) the M pin in the ALDL connector is wired back to.

My Swift has the ALDL connector - but - no ECU (it's carburetted) - as in your case the wires lead back into a bundle running under the dash and I never figured out where it ended.

Swifted · Member

I just Posted over on Team Swift my recent Voltage probing on the 12 Pin ALDL connector under my dash.

I just checked with my Fluke 87 DMM to see what Voltages are present on my pins, and I came up with the 12V on Terminal 'H'. But no Voltage present between Terminal 'A' & 'M'. I also measured across a known 0V reference & Terminal 'M' and still no Voltages present.

I tried tracing the wires, but they went into a black insulation jacket and quickly tucked away into the Instrument panel wiring (running along the lower dash rail). I'm going to order the 12 Pin to USB ALDLCable soon, so I decided to finally get around to measuring the Pins. I'm now wondering if this will be a problem.

What thoughts do you guys have?

fordem · Senior Member

Also, to correct the forum, Lloyd Barnhill and TunerTools is in no way associated with ALDLcables. ALDLCables.com is a trade name of OBD Diagnostics, Inc. We manufacture and sell all of our own cables, including the one you are referring to.

--Ken

I've been sufficiently puzzled by this to go back and check - the cable I purchased from Lloyd at TunerTools IS an OBD Diagnostics Inc/ALDLcables.com product - maybe I was mistaken as to who runs what, but, there definitely is some sort of a relationship between the two, even if it's only as a reseller.

TechSupport · Guru

That will work fine then.

Swifted · Member

Looks like I got some good news regarding the ALDL to USB cable that I was inquiring about biggrin

;

From: OBD2 All In One Sales [mailto:sales@obd2allinone.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 6:57 PM
To: Daniel Gomez
Subject: Re: Voltage Switching Thresholds for ALDL to USB Cable

Hi Daniel.

The output voltage range on our cables is about 4V. The input switched at about 1.8V. This should meet your application specifications.

Also, to correct the forum, Lloyd Barnhill and TunerTools is in no way associated with ALDLcables. ALDLCables.com is a trade name of OBD Diagnostics, Inc. We manufacture and sell all of our own cables, including the one you are referring to.

--Ken

TechSupport · Guru

Email the guy and ask what the switching thresholds are. The Suzuki interface should have a 2.5V switching threshold with some hysteresis, as long as the high to low threshold isn't lower than around 1.4V then it will be acceptable.

fordem · Senior Member

Oops - that should be Lloyd Barnhill not Barnwell - try sales@tunertools.com

Swifted · Member

I wonder if I can contact Lloyd Barnwell of Tuner tools, and ask if the electronics are the same aww

. I'm just a lil scared to go spend $80us on a cable that will not be able to be used ashamed

fordem · Senior Member

That cable is actually supplied by the aldlcables.com/obd diagnostics inc, which I believe is run by Lloyd Barnwell of TunerTools.

I believe that it is, so to speak, a 12 pin version of the 16 pin cable I am using - ie - same electronics, different connector - if I'm right on that it will have the FTDI internal chipset and should work.

-- Edited by fordem on Sunday 11th of October 2009 04:34:13 PM

TechSupport · Guru

It may well be OK, without knowing what the circuitry is I can't say. If you're not good with SMT but want to build your own then you can get a through hole module from FTDI and substitute the SMT comparator with a leaded equivalent.