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Post Info TOPIC: TPS info for baleno G16b Euro II


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RE: TPS info for baleno G16b Euro II
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madmaxarjun wrote:

I think that since the ECU measures the resistance of both the end, the ECU would mark this as a bad TPS, as the resitance of one side would be ove the limit.


 

 

A/D converter in ecu can measure only voltage as far as I know. Total resistance of TPS is not very important because it works as voltage divider.

If you unplug it from supply side, you will get 0 volts in each position.

If you unplug it from ground side, you will get approx 5V in each position.



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Hi Rhinoman,

 

Thank you for the infomation.

If the ECU does not calibrate the TPS, then why would it not matter if the TPS voltage is not at 4.8 volts at WOT.

The manual says that at WOT the voltage must be over 3.6 volts, this sounds absurd because if some cars read 3.7 volts at WOT and others 4.5 .. would the 3.7 ones running lean all the time.

 

I had also thought about that if the ECU auto calibrates each time , then what would happen at WOT ?

 

I think that since the ECU measures the resistance of both the end, the ECU would mark this as a bad TPS, as the resitance of one side would be ove the limit.

 

Can somebody confirm their TPS voltage at WOT ?

 



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The TPS angle is calculated fairly crudely from the idle switch position and the known angle between idle and full throttle. In vehicles with out an actual idle switch the idle position is taken as a fixed voltage, usually 0.5V or 1V. This is the voltage at which the TPS is normally adjusted to, as you have no adjustment then I assume that it is made accurately enough that the ECU will know where idle is. The ECU can't calibrate based on the switch on position as the throttle may be held open. I don't remember which value the ECU uses I think that the angle is purely for diagnostics.

Modifying the MAP would only work if it was a multiplication and not an offset because otherwise the barometric correction would cancel it out. AN O2sensor mod should work because during WOT the ECU still uses the Long term Fuel Trim for fuelling corrections, the O2sensor is really only an 'engine wear detector' and is there to allow corrections to the fuelling required when the engine condition deteriorates. At WOT the fuelling is still calculated primarily from the MAP sensor and the air temperature sensor readings.



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1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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madmaxarjun wrote:

I have planned to simulate the MAP output to correct/improve my fueling.

I did not want to go the Lambda way as this is ignored at WOT.


 Arjun,

WOT and "improve fueling" is like fire and water for me :)

I suspect, that at WOT ecu uses just internal parameters and ignore all other sensors. But I can be wrong...



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Makes sense Rhinoman...

so the TPS has 3 connection points, lets name them A, B & C.

lets say A is reference +5v from the ECU.

B is ground, C is the feedback to the ECU.

I had expected that ECU would only consider the C feedback.

But it seems that at startup,the ECU measures resisitance across both the B ground  & C feeback and B ground & A reference, this is the reason why you would see voltages both sides before the engine fires up.

 

This way the ECU would know the relative position of the TPS at closed throttle, and based on this data the ECU would estimate the max Voltage at WOT.

The TPS is non adjustabe, you could try and file out the holes into a slot and set it as you like, but this would make no difference as the ECU would calibrate it each time the key is switched on..

what would be interresting is to compare the C feeback from the TPS to the voltage sent out by the ECU to the SDL.

 

One reason for the ECU to send out the Percentage as well as a voltage to the SDL could be that, the percenatge is for display and the voltage is to ensure that TPS is working correctly to flaunt an error code.

Sadly I could not find much information to prove my theory, but the SDL interface would clear things out completely.

 

I have planned to simulate the MAP output to correct/improve my fueling.

I did not want to go the Lambda way as this is ignored at WOT.

I know this for a fact that the MAP input is considered based on the TPS opening, hence to move further from here I must know the TPS well.

 

This is the TPS is have,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TH244-Throttle-Position-Sensor-TPS-13420-52G00-SUZUKI-AERIO-ESTEEM-SWIFT-METRO-/150853526651?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D717896493833575675%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26

Regards,

Arjun



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madmaxarjun wrote:

on the RhinoPower Interface I see that TPS is displayed as a percentage, i assume this is the ecu's intented outpt and not the actual TPS voltage.

Regards,

Arjun


The ECU sends out two values, one is the actual voltage and the other is the calculated opening in %, the dataviewer screen displays both. I'm surprised that your TPS in not adjustable, on the Balenos that I have worked on it has been. Can you please post a picture of this? or email it to me at engineering @ rhinopower org



-- Edited by Rhinoman on Thursday 19th of July 2012 12:41:00 PM

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1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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madmaxarjun wrote:

kostuch are you refering to the sy 416 manual ?.
the funny part is that the manual says that TPS at WOT should be 3.4~4.6 volts, but  this range is absurd, as at 3.6 volts at WOT i would still be running over 35 percent lean.
thid does not seem right, does the ECU have another method to benchmark the TPS, I mean could it index the TPS each time the ignition is turned on ?
does it treat the max voltage at the TPS as WOT ?
Could someone confirm this behavior ?
Regards,
Arjun

 

Yes, I quoted sy416 manual.

I suspect, that absolute voltage is only to check if TPS works properly and to detect rapid changes in throttle position.

I don't know how many volts should be to reach WOT condition. Probably there is a voltage range to accomodate various cases.

Rhinoman should know better than me such details :)



-- Edited by kostuch on Thursday 19th of July 2012 10:39:29 AM

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Ok i think I know what is happening.

I think the ECU calibrates the TPS each time the engine is fired up, hence the absolute voltages are meaningless.

 

The only way to test this is the Rhinop SDL :)...

Question for Rhinoman:

on the RhinoPower Interface I see that TPS is displayed as a percentage, i assume this is the ecu's intented outpt and not the actual TPS voltage.

 

Do you ship to India ? if yes could you provide me details on shipping,and availability of the product.

I would inspect the SDL conector tomorrow.

 

Regards,

Arjun



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Thanks for the reply.

The TPS is not adjustable, that is not a problem as I could file the holes into a slot but this would still not solve the problem, I could achive the same with a parallel resistance, but this takes the TPS idle voltage way over .6 volts.

 

kostuch are you refering to the sy 416 manual ?.
the funny part is that the manual says that TPS at WOT should be 3.4~4.6 volts, but  this range is absurd, as at 3.6 volts at WOT i would still be running over 35 percent lean.
thid does not seem right, does the ECU have another method to benchmark the TPS, I mean could it index the TPS each time the ignition is turned on ?
does it treat the max voltage at the TPS as WOT ?
Could someone confirm this behavior ?
Regards,
Arjun


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The SDL interface has been tested on one Indian Baleno with the G16B engine. You will need to check that your diagnostic connector has pin 9 populated and not pin 7.

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1984 Suzuki SJ413K pick up, 1.6 16V Baleno engine
2000 Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8V, many mods
2004 Suzuki Ignis 1.5VVT 4Grip
2006 Suzuki Jimny 1.3VVT JLX+
and many more.



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According to manual, TPS voltage should be 3,27-4,58 volt at WOT.
I don't remember if baleno has adjustable TPS position - check if you can unfasten screws and turn it clockwise/counterclockwise.


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Hi all,

I have been trying to sort out a flat spot issue I have had for quite some time.

We went through all the sensors and everthing seems to be in spec.

While troubleshooting the issue, the TPS grabbed my attention, though the voltage seem to in the defined limits, I was not able to read over 3.6 volts at WOT, I have been researching things around and do not see a mention of it anywhere, i expected the voltage t to be just shy of 4.9 volts at WOT.

we then fed the ECU a 4.9 volt, the cel did not come up and the engine felt way more responsive in the top range.

My question is the voltage at WOT not at 4.8~4.9 volts ?

At idle I see a .55 volt, the car runs better at .4-.47 at the lower RPMs.

We though of adding resistance to the switch but this would screw my idle voltage, so either I can tune the TPS for the lower rpm range or the higher but not both.

Do I need a new TPS ? or does the  TPS on the G16B behaves this way ?

I would like to invest in the SDL interface, but would it work with the indian 

baleno ? I have a single wire narrow band Lambda.

 

Regards,

 

Arjun



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